The World-Famous Official ‘Spill 30-Day Musical Challenge
(Rules)
Day 20 topic: a song that no one would expect you to love
Please include song name & artist in your post for Chris
.
The World-Famous Official ‘Spill 30-Day Musical Challenge
(Rules)
Day 20 topic: a song that no one would expect you to love
Please include song name & artist in your post for Chris
.
Hmmmm…. I’ll have to think about this one. I suspect we all know each other’s tastes too well to be able to surprise anyone …
Couldn’t have put it better myself, Toffee.
Taking a break from going goggle-eyed in front of my Census laptop (another 2am finish beckoning), for what is fast becoming a daily ritual: I’m not going to know what to do with myself on May 1st
[You better flippin' well think about it pdq, buster! That'll be 13 years to the day ... - DsMam]
Shihad- Bitter.
I used to buy jazz and electronic cds off these guys at Tower Records, Wellington.
Yep, Herr Hippo, you score here. Wouldn’t have expected that from you.
But there are sections of Loveless in there….
True.. actually anyone who really pays close attention to my RR noms would also have noticed I do mention thrashier guitar stuff from time to time, mostly from down under.. this is probably the nearest to actual metal I have, though.
I haven’t been paying close enough attention, this IS a surprise. Too thrashy for me !
*makes devils horns sign, bangs head on desk. Work colleagues stare on in horrified silence*
are they the band who changed their name and then changed it back again? Quite enjoyed that.
Right, they got a bit embarrassed with the name- which was an inadvertent misspelling of Jihad- around the gulf war years and changed it to Pacifier for a while, but reverted to the original name later on. I haven’t really gotten into their later albums, but I do enjoy the earlier Killjoy from time to time, from which this track comes. And they are really nice guys.
Considering my allergy to country music, I am quite surprised at myself for liking for Dolly Parton’s Jolene, but I’ve mellowed on the hating a whole genre over the years.
I love Dolly! Dond!
thank you, she is a great song writer, I sometimes find the arrangements a bit hard to listen to, but I can see her appeal.
@TB- I guess you knew I was going to post that..
Lol!
This isn’t normally my kind of thing at all but I loved it when I first heard it and I still do.
I once heard Tim Brooke Taylor singing it on “I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue”. That was something I will carry with me to the grave.
Better than Teenage Kicks in my opinion.
dond. I love that song too.
Donded!!
Girls Aloud? Why not!
I actually loved the Ukelele Orchestra cover someone (sourpus?) posted a few weeks ago.
t’was moi, amy. I’ve yet to hear a version of this I didn’t like. But the time will come…
sorry, ghe! Old age has killed my memory.
I won’t watch the video because I want to picture the teenage girl as a shy, spotty, teenage girl Iron Maiden fan, not a hairy adult male singing in a high voice… But this is indeed a great song. I’m not surprised about anyone liking it though.
I don’t know much about Girls Aloud, but from what i do know, i have a pretty tough time imagining any of them to be closet Iron Maiden fans.
So an utter failure in terms of the remit then?
I like Paul McCartney’s Frogs’ Chorus too but I didn’t think that would surprise anyone.
Bonnie Tyler – Total Eclipse of the Heart
Overblown cheese, I love it!
BLOODY HELL! Wouldn’t have seen that coming in a million years.
WHAT!
Dagnabit, forgot to hit notify tab
Agree with TB that we’re all pretty much open books regarding the whims of our musical passions. I grew up with punk, new wave and reggae and I’ve eulogised about enough cheese, showtunes, kids TV themes and the like to counter-balance the muso credentials of my jazz, soul, hip-hop, blues bedrock so I think I’ll focus on the idea of a song I love, as opposed to dig in an unapologetic but still mildly ironic way.
So – Madonna. Never been that big on her but she’s undoubtedly made a clutch of very good records – stuff like Vogue, Like A Prayer, Ray Of Light, Rain – all excellent. And this -
Madonna – Crazy For You
– is also, on one level, a fine piece of pop music. But this one goes beyond the occasionally grudging respect I have for Madge. I love this so much, I forget it’s Madonna who did it, or I can understand why there was even a possibility she could get played on black music radio in the States and people not know she was white. I love the spoken “crazy for you” bit she does towards the end and the repetition of “feel it my kiss” – it’s magnificent. Frankly, it was this or Elton’s I Guess That’s Why They Call It The Blues but this is the one my girlfriend and I can duet on so convincingly, I feel ready to be fitted for my conical boobs.
that’s “feel it IN my kiss” – got MFF typo fingers for a second!
Ha, you beat me to it! One of like 3 Madonna songs i actually like. I love it, actually. So i won’t post another Madonna song then (i also like Don’t Tell Me and Live To Tell. shhh.)
May in a pair of conical boobs . . . Christ, I’m gonna have to drink myself into a stupor now to avoid that image creeping into my dreams.
Get her! Just because some of us can wear a tin bra and make it look good…
May (& Amylee) you’ve hit on the one Madonna song I’ve been caught singing aloud to. It really does work on a level I haven’t seen in any of her other material. Donded
I’ve always been a huge Madonna fan. “True Blue” is in my top 10 albums of all time.
But whodda thought that the singer from the now defunct bunch of libertines era London indie chancers the Rakes could ever voice such a good cover version??
Enjoyed that cover version (and also love the original).
I have a fair bit of respect for Madonna, and reckon a 12-track compilation of my favourite songs would be an awesome record (“Beautiful Stranger” is an under-rated gem).
But this seems like a good place for something I’ve wanted to get off my chest:
Fairly recently she did a song with the chorus “I’ll be your one-stop candy shop”. Now, it was an awful record by any standards. Lyrically, though, my main beef isn’t that it was a rip-off of an already despicable 50 Cent song. Having spent some time working in marketing, I find “one-stop shop” a really annoying cliche at the best of times. But “one-stop candy shop”? That doesn’t even make sense. Do people buy lollipops from one shop, gobstoppers from another, and bubblegum from a specialist gum outlet? No, they do not. Candy shops are, by nature, one-stop shops.
OK, rant over. At least she didn’t say “I’ll be your one-stop candy solutions provider”.
my mates mate was in the Rakes (we went out a few times) and I bought an actual rake yesterday, it’s the first one i’ve ever owned
- can I claim my indie-gardener points??!
@barbryn: does she mean that kind of candy though?
@tfd – you think there may be some double meaning in this song that I’m missing??? Next you’ll be suggesting that 50 Cent’s “I’ll let you lick my lollipop” wasn’t simply a generous invitation to share his sweets…
I don’t know the song, you see, so I couldn’t be sure. But I expect it’s an easy mistake to make.
I bought an actual rake yesterday, it’s the first one i’ve ever owned
One of these?
TY – that’s amazing! and there was me moving leaves around with it when I could have been producing music that sounds not dissimilar to not a few records in my collection!
May – I can imagine you liking this song. I can imagine me liking it too. I wonder if we’re near similar ages, because (I’m 41) there’s something about hearing a song in your late teens that makes you hear it with your “Other ears.” the less critical ones and the painfully critical ones all at the same time!
No, steen, I’m 17 and I’d never heard of Madonna before she adopted that African kid….
Oh, OK then, reckon I’ve got 2-3 years on you so my ears at the age I was when this was out were pretty much 100% critical! Madonna’s someone I’ve grown to respect without ever having been a fan – I’m happy to accept that she’ll do some great stuff (like amylee’s other choices), some stuff that’s good by virtue of last year’s hip producer (William Orbit like Shep Pettibone before him), some landfill and a few hideous tracks, including every cover version she’s ever done. And this track was a slow grower but I recently realised that, in a performance poem I did 14 years ago, I channelled a bit of the vocal style (that spoken repetition of the title I mentioned) – never made the connection at the time.
You have remarkably mature taste for a 17 year old! Well done!
It’s so funny, watching that video… I had a big crush on Matthew Modine, and I loved the movie Desperately Seeking Susan, which was this era Madonna. I lived a lot in my imagination as a teenager, and I could imagine hanging out with Madonna in the village. I never really respected her as a musical artist… but as somebody that created a desirable persona… whether you wanted to be with her or be her…she did a pretty good job.
Given my oft stated dislike of psychedelic era music, I guess this one may surprise some people. The Moody Blues “Voices In The Sky”.
I hated their version of “Go Now”, but this one, “Nights in White Satin” and “Question” I did like. Unfortunately, we had a mate who loved them and kept inflicting albums on us which I found soporific.
It was either this, or “Super Duck” by Keith Harris & Orville.
I’m guessing that people don’t find this very surprising.
I almost put my Robert Wyatt album, but there’s a ver long story attached to that!
Only because you posted another Moody Blues song earlier or another topic. Otherwise i would have been properly surprised.
Now, a B*****s song really would have surprised me…
I do own one McCartney composition by another artist. Spill points for those who can guess it!
We Can Work It Out by Stevie Wonder ?
No, sorry. I’ll give a clue. Marconius has mentioned this track on several occasions.
Tricky. Am guessing I’m least known for oldies. So let’s scrape the mold off this piece of cheese from the 50′s:
Adam Faith – What Do You Want?
Adam Faith . . . Shoey.
Shoey . . . Adam Faith.
Nope, does not compute. Shoegazer scores.
my Mum loves Adam Faith, that is a surprise.
It’s those pizzicato strings that do it!
When this came out and started getting radio plays, I honestly thought it was Buddy Holly and a follow-up to “It Doesn’t Matter Anymore”, the arrangement and vocals being so similar.
My path and Adam’s crossed several times before his death, without either of us really knowing each other.
Gah, I’ve already mentioned “Back for Good”…
Would anyone have expected me to love What You Waiting For by Gwen Stefani? If not, I’ll go for that:
Thought this was pretty good when it came out! I’m letting the punk pose drop tonight!
OK, will this do?
I’ve even got the album . . . somewhere.
I think this is going to be my favourite day so far, and could prove a dangerous distraction to my ridiculously crowded diary for the next 22 hours.
@ Chris – I haven’t forgotten to list artist and title, I’ll write it in later, once I find out if I have managed to surprise anyone.
Anyone?
D’OH! I forgot that would show as the whole video screen, rather than an anonymous link.
Fee-ee–eell stooo-peed naah-ow!
Redhead Kingpin & The FBI – Do The Right Thing
I know about your affection for that Fab Five Freddy song but this is one step further.
Well, it has to be Kylie – Can’t get you out of my head:
When I was pregnant, sprog used to kick around to this in my tummy …
Lawdy, I hate that record. But nope, that’s another I wouldn’t have seen coming from you, Ali.
I did like this at the time, although it’s long since become overfamiliar.
Well, this is a surprise ! Obviously the version by the Netherthong Muesli-Weaver Folk Collective is far superior, but I like this too.
The Honley Silver Band versionis cool, too…
You probably know all my secrets by now…
…except one!
Keep Your Hands To Yourself by the Georgia Satellites
Sorry, tfd, no surprise to me. Think we’ve had that conversation before.
Well, to me it’s sort of gonzo rock, which I mostly object to…but I love this song (and Battleship Chains) for some reason. But I have no knowledge of nor interest in the Satellites otherwise.
Well it’s only a surprise in the sense you’ve never mentioned it while I was around but I can see you going for it. This really does crank in a countrified funky way.
I found it really difficult. I tried to think of some pop songs but I really never hear that sort of thing these days.
Not so much a song , more a piece of music.
Can’t remember when I first heard it ( thought it was a soundtrack from one of the “3 Colours Films” – but it wasn’t ) . Anyway it has been with me in my mind for a long time.
I finally got hold of a copy of it last year. Those who know my musical tastes, (and Mrs bluepeter),were confused when I played it for them.
For me it is a very moody piece and makes me quite thoughtful. -Not the usual you at all then , Ed -.
Erik Satie…………….Trios Gymnopedies 1.
http://youtu.be/LBhZAQlOtwg
Ok, i’ll go for the cheese too.
Sheena Easton – You Could Have Been With Me
NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surprised you then, did i? I do feel the need for a shower now. (btw, it is the only song i like by here, and that included the collab with a Mr. Nelson too.)
Don’t know about the song so much. I’m having great image of a bar/club we all hung out in at a certain age where this stuff would always be playing but I would just tune it out cause the people were so entertaining.. I think if I’m donding anything it’s the hair. Talk about only in a unique moment in time. Wow!
Now that i remember it, i got a bit of stick for posting this as a nom on the mothership once. I think i said something like “I can’t believe i’m posting this”, and there was some grumbling about posting songs that you don’t like. Guess it was hard for some people to get their heads around the fact that i actually liked it.
*is surprised*!
I really don’t have any rational explanation for it. I’m a huge Prince fan, but that song Sugar Walls (cringeworthy title) that he wrote for her is just awful, and so it the U Got the Look duet she did with him. For some reason i just like this one.
I was a very big Prince fan when I was quite young, but totally went off him when Parade came out, sold all my tapes, videos and scrap books and never wanted to hear him again, not sure why now, I do enjoy the odd track. I think I was aware of Sheena Easton before she was a friend of Prince, so would be surprised that you’d even heard of her!
That stupid song about baby taking the morning train was a hit over here.
Fireball XL5.
oh yeah, written by Barry Gray, vocal by Don Spencer.
Now there’s a blast from the past! Not sure anything you pick could strike me as so-off-the-webcore-piste-as-to-be-a-shock, though, sowc.
Wish I’d thought of this’un for Songs About Water.
Ok I’m a little confused. Why should I be surprised again?
I wish I were a soaceman
The fastest guy alive
I’d travel round the universe
In Fireball XL5
Never mind liking it, I thought this was written about you, webby!
Ha! Check out the restaurant in Marina’s Theme at 0:10, it’s pure unspoilt Torremolinos c.1958. And what about that poster!
There’s a band doing the rock and roll circuit calling themselves The Fireballs (nothing to do with Norman Petty) who play this. We gigged with them last November and this went down very well.
I’ll go with the first that came to mind, though AC/DC’s Thunderstruck was a contender. This was a RR discovery, from AdamK I think. I’ve mentioned it before but it still stands out, I love the line about the Mississippi river too.
Indigo Girls’ Ghost:
Funny, I was also thinking about Thunderstruck, but then I watched the video and changed my mind…
OK – perhaps not a surprise to some of you but the alternative is not playing the game, so here goes …
Didn’t you start a podcast with this? Otherwise…it would have been a big surprise.
You have a scarily good memory steen!
Well, I would never have expected this of you, blimpy!
I’ve admitted to all kinds of shameful pleasures kind of stuff that I like over the years, AOR, power ballads, Kylie etc but I don’t think that I have ever mentioned that I like Guru’s Jazzmatazz albums, so here we have Jazzmatazz (aka Guru) with No Time To Play featuring D.C Lee and Ronny Jordan
Love this song!
Well to Mrs. Fintan my penchant for sappy cheeseified wussy 70s rock is well known but perhaps not across the pond. So I could have gone for say, John Denver, but I actually heard this on the radio today. I caught myself singing along before I knew it & yes I knew most the lyrics. As with most things like this there was a girl involved at the time but she’s long gone & I still like the song. What the hell is it about this stupid-ass game makes you want to confess such a thing. Sheesh!
Please Come To Boston – Dave Loggins
This is a difficult question! I think this answer isn’t as fun as many of the other answers. This isn’t a fun guilty pleasure, really. I’ll go with Blind Willie McTelll’s Southern Can is Mine. If you knew me, you’d know that I abhor violence and misogyny. So why do I love this song? Why? (You lot know I love it because I’ve said it many a time on RR, so it’s not very surprising)
Sigh
I was kind of expecting something like NIN or Rammstein, so you really got me there..
I’m trying to think of something more surprising, but I think I’ve nominated songs from about every genre ever invented at one point or another.
D’oh! Just nom something from a genre which hasn’t been invented yet… *rolls eyes*
How about some brutally short hardcore noodle prog?
Can I just say, here, that I really really hope she picks my CJ submission this week? I sent it months ago and she said she’d use it in “a few weeks.” Oh dear oh dear…
We could certainly do with an old-school Steen CJ, all right.. there have been way too many brutally short hardcore noodle prog CJ’s in the last couple of weeks for my tastes.
I probably would have chosen a different topic at this point. THe one I submitted is quite broad, and I think it could make for an interesting conversation, but lately it’s been such a loose society of list-and-runners that … Well, we’ll see.
I agree with Steen on this.. context is everything with contentious words or terms. As Mitch said on an earlier thread, I see a parallel with the word sets associated with the Nazis and other extreme right wing groups. Used to critique or examine their crimes in a balanced way, these words need to be used, as only then can the full extent of their goals and mind-set be grasped.
If used, however, to whitewash, glorify, persecute, or incite, then there needs to be strict censorship.
In the case of many hip-hop artists Steen quotes, the misogyny, violence and self-hatred of the terms used is deliberately invoked as a criticism of particular mind sets, and I find this an essential and desirable form of social criticism.
Maybe it’s my lack of understanding of the genre, steen, but I would have thought that anyone who likes as much rap & hip-hop as you must have a fairly high tolerance for misogynistic, homophobic and violent lyrics (NB. I didn’t say ‘liking for’). Isn’t now the time for you to reveal your deep love for 1974-era versions of the Dead’s Playing In The Band? You know, the ultra-noodly ones that go on for 45 minutes…..
Chris, you have to imagine this in the mop-top buzzard’s voice from Jungle Book, which is how my sons always say it…
Now don’t start THAT again….
Kinda lost track of the Mop Top Buzzards after they went Glam. If anyone has the 7″ Japanese pressing of So Watcha Wanna Do? I’ve been looking for it for years.
I’m not familiar with the mop-top buzzard, steen, and I have no desire whatsoever to open another hip-hop gate, but it’s just a fact that rap lyrics contain a lot of offensive language (hence the ubiquitous Parental Advisory sticker). It may be artistically justified in the context of the stories being told but, out of context, the words can be unpleasant.
I was struck by your quotation from Me and Jesus the Pimp the other week. I really don’t think you’d hear the story told using language like this in any other genre:
His name is “hay-zoos” but his pimp name is “gee-zus”
Slapped a hoe to pieces with his plastic prosthesis
“Nigga don’t you know that I’m your daddy?” said he
This is true, plus he schooled me for my mackin’ degree
“Never plea, try not to flee, make niggaz pee when you stick around”
This man my momma had found taught me to put it down
I press the gas to the ground to show that I’m a hound
Makin’ sho’ that get rubber sound is heard throughout the town
Thirty years ago, Jesus could pull a hoe quick
But now he 50 and his belly hangs lower than his dick
I repeat: I’m not picking a fight or making an artistic judgement (hell, I love near-the-knuckle jokes as much as the next man). I’m just stating what I feel is obvious: by listening to hip-hop & rap, you have heard a lot of offensive language.
Chris-
I was a bit puzzled when you said that I’m So Excited had filthy lyrics, i didn’t really remember it that way. So i looked them up, and they did indeed seem awfully tame to me, even with innuendos. Especially as compared to, say, the Stones, which in turn seem pretty benign compared a lot of hip hop.
(I’ll nail my colors to the mast here and say that i don’t have much of a beef with violent or misogynistic lyrics. First off, because it’s reality in a way, and secondly i have an appreciation for pretty black and deadpan humor, and i take a lot of those sorts of lyrics in that spirit, and possibly intended to be read that way. I do cringe at racist or homophobic lyrics.)
amy: I should have said joyously filthy. The difference for me is that I’m So Excited celebrates a female desire for honest-to-goodness sex, whereas words like hoe and bitch are put-downs applied by men to women (and, worse, women to women) fairly indiscriminately. By their repeated use in popular songs, they have become almost acceptable, in the sense that people feel they have to defend why they find them offensive…
Someone I don’t consider a racist told me a joke recently in which the word Nigger was used. Shouldn’t we have evolved away from this being acceptable in any way, shape or form (unless you’re Richard Pryor or Chris Rock)?
If I’m arguing at all, I’m not arguing for censorship but education. Words are too powerful to use without thought of the consequences.
Chris…I have to admit I’m not offended by sweary language in most contexts.
As for Me and Jesus the Pimp in a ’79 Granada Last Night… I think this song is a good example of, er, something. Let’s see… First of all, it’s a portrait. It’s a portrait of a pimp in LA. I think it probably paints a more accurate picture of prostitution in LA than, say, Pretty Woman, which makes it (in my book) more responsible and less objectionable in a lot of ways than that sort of thing. Of course, why would one want to listen to a song about prostitutes in LA? A valid point. (Secondly, hip hop lyrics always look stupid when you quote them from lyrics sites. So do country songs, though. Dialect and slang represented in printed form always irk me.) Back to point #1…it’s a portrait. It’s a deftly drawn portrait, I think, and the language is powerful, I think. It’s a portrait of a villain, and a deftly drawn portrait of a villain in powerful language can be unpleasant to listen to. I’m sure I could come up with examples in classical literature that would support this statement. Lolita, for instance, is the first thing that comes to mine. Beautifully written, you feel you know and understand the narrator, but unpleasant to read in many ways.
There’s also a lot of beautiful language in this song… I find this passage incredibly touching…
“There’s beauty in the cracks of the cement
When I was five I hopped over them wherever we went to prevent
whatever it was that could break my momma’s back
Little did I know that it would roll up in a Cadillac ”
And then there’s this powerful condemnation of prostitution and misogyny, and I don’t think you’d find this sort of thing in many other genres of music…
“So my little son Dominic thinks that I’m a dick
Cause I was runnin’ ’round like a little baby Jesus
To me women had to be saints, hoes, or skeezers
And I don’t think that it’s gon’ end til we make revolution
But who gon’ make the shit if we worship prostitution?
Ain’t no women finna die for the same ol’ conclusion
Put they life on the line so some other pimp could use ‘em”
I don’t know. I think there’s so much of value there.
Of course, no word has any meaning out of context and I should know because there is no such thing as I, as the self is a construct of what is labelled ‘consciousness’ but is again a non-existent narrative applied to patterns of molecular activity..
If that helps.
I have no quibble whatsoever with the right of an artist to use whatever language he or she likes to express something but I think words do have meaning out of context (sorry, May) and therefore should be used carefully. From your RR quotation of that song it’s difficult not to see hoe as a legitimate word to describe a woman, whether or not that’s her job description. I have no idea what a skeezer is but I’d hazard a guess it doesn’t cover the middle ground between saint and hoe that most women inhabit. That sort of language is polarised and polarising and, ultimately, regressive.
But, hey, we all like different stuff. I’m such a PC wimp that I squirm* when a Dead lyric appears misogynistic (and there are a couple).
*Squirmish: what’s going on in Libya, according to Sarah Palin, after she put ‘war’ and ‘invasion’ to one side as descriptions. Her or Trump for President!
But, Chris…it’s the fact that the man is using the word “ho” that makes him a villain. And the fact that the narrator uses the word as well, and other derogatory words is a very sad situation that the song describes in vivid detail…he learned everything he knows about life and women from this terrible man, who you are not supposed to admire. It’s a cycle of bad ideas and villainy that’s very difficult to break, and the song is describing that cycle as a very bad sad terrible thing. The song in no way sanctions the use of the word “ho.” It says that it is a horrible horrible thing that anybody thinks of women in that way, or uses those words to describe women. It’s a song about misogyny, but it is not misogynist. It is ANTI-misogynisticalitaritan.
Been following the conversation & it is intriguing. Does make me wish I had thrown out Clean Drawers (I think that’s the title) for this as it surprised my son when I was playing it (surprised me too.) As far as Chris & Steen’s debate I have to say if one has to go this length to explain to someone with an obvious open mind the intended message of a song, what’s the chances that the people actually in need of the message are going to get it? I’ve been in a roomful of teenagers grasping at the lyrics but shouting along fitfully at the Ho lines. They then tell me I’m too old school to understand. Maybe but my daughter’s visceral rage at their behavior makes me wonder.
Whoops, I’ve replied a thread too soon… sorry to see another weak CJ Steen, and a rerun at that.
Thanks, nilpferd. And it is a shame about the flipping royal wedding.
Fintan, I get the impression that Chris didn’t actually listen to the song ( which is fine-I’m not complaining about that). But if that’s the case then it is me that’s being inarticulate and lacking in persuasion, not the song.
And are you saying that you were in a room full of teenagers listening to The Coup’s Me and Jesus the Pimp? that would surprise me! I’ve got to go, I’m in the park and the boys are calling me.
Well, if you won’t pick up my diversionary tactic….
I’m happy to accept what you say about this particular song, steen, irrespective of how obvious or not the message may be. But I don’t think you’d claim that in every hip-hop song where the word ho(e) is used, the person doing so is being portrayed as a villain, would you? At best it’s a word used because it reflects the milieu being described; at worst, its perpetuating misogynistic attitudes and spreading them around (and I, obviously, tend towards the latter view).
Yeah, CJ is a real let-down. How many Guardian readers give a stuff about the Kate’n'Wills show?
Steen I believe the point I was trying to make was the roomful of teenagers wouldn’t care what song was playing as long as they got to shout along with the hos & bitches part. When they’re all trying to out pimp each other it’s hard to imagine them stopping to consider the import of the lyrics. Having just listened to the song I can see the point of it being in essence anti-misogynistic .
But if you’re surprised that a room full of teenagers would be listening to that track then how does it’s message get to the people that need it.
Chris – of course I wouldn’t say that every time the word “ho” is used the person using it is being portrayed as a villain. Just as I wouldn’t say that every song about prostitution in other genres of music portrays pimps as villains, or that any genre EVER INVENTED is free of some pretty terrible misogynist sentiments. (Accept brutally short hard core noodle prog, which so far is looking pretty clean). But I would say, based on my knowledge of hip hop, based on the hip hop that I listen to and that I am aware of, that hip hop is the genre with artists most aware of misogyny as a problem, and with the most songs that address the problem head on and fearlessly. As a woman, I find hip hop, whether performed by men or women, far more, er, empowering is not the right word, but I don’t know what is…than any other genre that I can think of. And my tastes are pretty broad. For some reason hip hop has been stereotyped as misogynistic and homophobic. That’s not my experience of it.
Fintan, sorry, I didn’t fully express myself there, and it might have come across as rude. I’m not good at typing on my phone, and I was sitting in the park, so I probably should have just waited til I got home. Me and Jesus the Pimp is not really a “party song,” So if a group of teenagers were listening to it, I would imagine they were sitting in a car or just hanging out, and maybe they would start to understand the lyrics. The Coup do have some extremely catchy tunes that sound like party songs, and they are very clever about subversively putting an anti-materialistic or anti-capitalistic message in that teenagers might find themselves chanting along to, and some of it might soak in.
I don’t know if anybody will remember this earworm I posted a while back. It’s Wear Clean Draws, a song from Boots to his daughter, with excellent beats from Pam, the Coup’s female DJ. It gives me shivers. It’s about being strong, being proud, being careful and living. It’s beautiful.
steenbeck, I would love to think that everyone who listens to this music is sophisticated enough to hear what you do. But I just don’t think they are. I don’t know very much about it of course (though I know Gin And Juice, because the Gourds do it – and I hate it).
But I’m reminded of that song Summer Loving from Grease. When I first heard it I was amused, and I liked it, because I could see how it was satirising those late 50s/early 60s attitudes (which I well remembered) about boy/girl relationships. That’s not how the young people I knew at the time picked it up at all though. They thought that was the way things were – and it does seem that attitudes are heading back that way, horrible though is – I’m thinking especially about young men’s use of porn and how that affects their expectations about relationships.
OK, that’s not because of Grease, you’ll say. But it’s a very popular film.
@ Tfd. There’s probably a lot of men, both young and not so, who think women come with a staple in their stomach area. They do in those books they read.
Wear Clean Drawers! That’s it. You nommed that for something last year & i just love it. Would have made the perfect nom for this topic had I remembered. I remember my daughter chastising her brother & his friends ’cause the only lines they seemed to remember from songs were basically hurtful & only worthy of posers. Maybe what you’re saying is what she was getting at. She’s a feisty redhead & really gave ‘em what for. Messaging always is a problem. As i get older I tend to notice more & more things that are blindingly obvious to some not only totally escape some people but take on wholly unintended meanings.
Goodness, Mitch, that’s an old one.
“Goodness, Mitch, that’s an old one.”
That’s me folks!
Who you calling bitch, ho?
by JULIE BINDEL
The teenage boy has just been asked how he feels about women being called “bitches and hos” by hip-hop artists. “You gotta understand,” he tells the interviewer, looking towards a group of scantily clad young women, “some women are bitches and hos.”
This clip is from an eye-opening documentary about hip-hop called Beyond Beats and Rhymes, which aims to expose the dark side of the genre: the sexism, violence and homophobia of much of its lyrics and videos, and many of its stars. When I saw the film, by Byron Hurt, at a feminist conference in Boston, I feared a worthy but dull diatribe, but I was in for a pleasant surprise. As soon as the soundtrack began, a heavy, jazzy number by Philadelphia-based band the Roots, the audience was gripped.
As a fan of hip-hop and a radical feminist myself, I found the film a treat. Woven into a vibrant soundtrack are interviews with big-name rappers such as Mos Def, Fat Joe, Chuck D, Jadakiss and Busta Rhymes, who are pressed to answer difficult questions about the violent and sexually explicit content of many songs and videos; they neither excuse nor denounce the genre, pointing out that it is part of a free culture. These are juxtaposed with the thoughts of people in the street, and with those of African-American writers, commentators and political activists, who — while being careful not to attack the whole genre and its importance to black culture — do maintain that its excesses are far from harmless, and that things like lyrics matter.
Hip-hop has never been bigger. Hip-hop studies is a rapidly growing subject at colleges and universities in the United States. There are more than 300 classes on offer, with new books appearing regularly. Curiously, more and more young women are identifying themselves as “hip-hop feminists”. This may sound contradictory, but hip-hop was, in the beginning, also a political movement, allowing disenfranchised people — initially black men from the Bronx — to speak out against oppression.
“What I am trying to do is to get us men to take a good look at ourselves,” says Hurt. He aims to get people thinking about the ways in which men learn to exploit and disrespect women, and how to change things for the better. “In the US, lots of young men involved in the rap and hip-hop world have learned from [the film], as well as fans.”
Growing up listening to hip-hop artists such as the Jungle Brothers, Big Daddy Kane and De La Soul, Hurt believes there is nothing inherently negative about hip-hop; it is simply reflecting the misogynistic culture the artists and fans grow up in. “You have to be strong, tough, have a lot of girls, money, and be in control,” says Hurt. “Otherwise you are called soft, or a faggot, and nobody wants to be called those things.”
Hurt made his first film in 1993 while still a student on a journalism course. Moving Memories, his own reflections on being an African American among white students, gave him the confidence to become a professional filmmaker. What inspired him to make Beyond Beats and Rhymes? “I realised that the dominant messages in much hip-hop are about men being in control, being disrespectful to women, and throwing their guns and money around while posing with their flash cars. So many of us simply consume the images and lyrics of this music without thinking about what it all means.”
Marcos Brito — stage name QBoy — is the United Kingdom’s only out gay rap and hip-hop artist. For him, the strength of Hurt’s film is the fact that it is as much a celebration of what is good about hip-hop, and its potential to elicit positive change, as it is a critique. “In recent years, the influence of gangsta rap in commercial music has been so great that mainstream audiences consider it to be and mean the same as hip-hop,” says Brito. “They equate the music and nature of hip-hop with gun crime, homophobia and misogyny. Hip-hop has so much more to offer.”
But does it? Take this all-too typical line from West Coast hip-hop pioneer Too Short: “Now take my bitch/ She won’t complain about shit/ It ain’t hard to tell she belongs to me/ I pimped her 15 years in this industry.” And few who saw it will forget Snoop Dogg showing up at the MTV awards in 2003 with two women in dog collars and leashes. It’s hard to say that he was being endearing to these women, says Hurt.
That Bindel piece was hilarious. My jaw as on the floor when that came out.
I feel a rant coming on! Shane – interesting article, and I think it proves my point that hip hop culture is unique in examining the “Dark side” of its nature, and in addressing the issue of misogyny.
In the article it says that hip hop is simply reflecting the misogynistic culture it comes from. That’s not hip hop, that’s the world. I was anorexic, my mother was anorexic, my grandmother was anorexic. It fucking sucks to be female. It’s really really really hard. There are violent, sexist, shitty terrible things that you encounter every day of your life. I’m sorry, but that’s not from hip hop. That’s from every magazine you see at the checkout at the grocery store, from your brother’s sports illustrated swimsuit issue, from every ad for clothing that you ever see, from every hollywood movie ever ever made, from fucking Robert Plant videos, from Lady Gaga and Britney Spears, and whoever told them they should sell themselves like that. From porn (And TFD, I would probably attribute a rise in porn usage to the internet, and not Grease, but I might be wrong.) From art photography of “nudes” from paintings of ‘Nudes” from the plot of every classic novel or play…Can you tell that I could go on and on? Old school hip hop videos, with the jeans pulled up to the armpits and the turtle necks, and the healthy-looking women never made me feel bad about myself. Hip hop is not blameless. Treating women like shit sells. In hip hop as in any other part of our life. I’m sorry about that.
Now…a song that makes me laugh….
This was the Bindel article that i was talking about -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jun/27/glastonbury-snoop-dogg-julie-bindel?INTCMP=SRCH
I wish I’d kept my original observation to myself. I didn’t mean things to go in that direction.
Sorry, Chris! Didn’t mean to get all rant-y. It was an interesting conversation and I certainly don’t regret your first post. I just think that there’s a lot wrong with this world, and hip hop is an easy target.
Chris -
We have a different culture in the US in relation to free speech and artistic self-expression. And i’m glad for it, better to get things out in the open rather than let them fester. I feel very lucky to have been an art student here.
Words matter, but they can also be used as satire and irony too. Images matter. But interpretation is in the eye / ear/ mind of the beholder. The work of some of my favorite photographers are highly offensive to many people. Mapplethorpe, with photographs of homoerotic S&M. Sally Mann’s sexualized(?) children. Serrano’s religious blasphemy. Joel-Peter Witkin’s photos of corpses and body parts. Animal cruelty appalls me, but I found Damien Hirst’s dead animal sculptures very moving. And you have to allow it all out there to pick your own wheat from chaff.
Phew…I wrote “accept” for “except” again. What is going on with me? Nutty.
Am I the only one who’s noticed that almost all of your posts are slightly embarassing songs – ones that we might not expect of you, because you’re all so cool – whereas my choice …
Who is “You” Toffeeboy? Is that a general question for the RR massive, or was that a response to BWmcT? I feel like everything I ever nominate ever anywhere is slightly embarrassing!
No, steen, I hadn’t seen your BWMcT nom – not much of a surprise though and not at all embarassing!
Well, I think you’re the coolest of the cool, Toffee. I’m not always familiar with the bands you nominate, but I loved your ‘Spill series, and there’s nothing more cool than knowing what you like and liking it and knowing it, and that’s you!!
Yes, I was referring to the RR massive not to you personally. Thanks for the kind comments. Aw, shucks, now I’ve gone all shy ….
I admit I nearly copped out by going for REM – Perfect Circle which after all still has some kind of alternative cred – enough for people to sneer with derision when Cameron claimed it was a favourite. I may even have mentioned it in the thread. So it’s got to be this cheesy product of the BBC’s Fame Academy (a reality show made all the worse by it’s veneer of worthiness). I just like it, no defence
Sinead Quinn – What You Need Is
I have to say that you shocked me when you donded my Kim Wylde nom on the mothership awhile ago.
Put them in the same category! Kids In America was a huge hit that lots of people of m age still seem to like though. This was a flop , so I guess I’m on my own!
Nothing wrong with Kim Wylde!
Since Chris is the NCO i/c here I know I can get brownie points with this one, I saw a film recently in which it was featured and it’s been a genuine earworm ever since, it’s:
Uncle John’s Band by the Dead.
dond of course. I totally love it.
I’m not surprised you’ve taken to UJB, gf. Both from what I’ve learnt of your taste and from what I already knew of the song.
All-in-one donds for Wheatus, Kylie, Bonnie Tyler and Dolly. Mild surprises all but fairly credible choices in these post-modern times (and Dolly Parton is way overdue props as a hugely credible singer-songwriter).
Hey, I’ve got a runner-up choice – no need to trouble Chris with it and it probably failed to make the cut because ‘love’ would be stretching a point. It really isn’t a guilty pleasure but, when I hear it, even I get surprised that I like it: Shakira’s Underneath Your Clothes.
I nearly nommed Dolly’s I Will Always Love You too. I’m not a big country fan but i have no beef with Dolly. She has a beautiful voice.
Love that song…as sung by Dolly of course (who wrote it), not Whitney. I seem to remember that Elvis wanted to record it but demanded (or Col. Tom demanded) a composer credit so Dolly turned him down.
Well said MAY, I’ve always rated Dolly Parton’s gift as a songwriter, Her voice and choice of subject is often a bit sweet for my taste, but that doesn’t diminish her ability one jot. She has been at times funny, sly and subversive, attacking stereotypes and often providing a new viewpoint to tired subjects. Damn fine bluegrass musician, too.
Now, I think my tastes are pretty well known, so hopefully this will be a surprise. I genuinely love this song, in fact it leaves me a bit teary every time, not sure why…..sometimes you can’t explain the effect of music!
Shania Twain – “Still The One”
Ah, a Magic FM staple! Love it.
I used to work with a ROCKER. He was in rock bands and everything. I’ll never forget the time Shania Twain came up in conversation. He said, “Shania Twain is a fox.” and walked off. For some reason it was a very memorable moment for me.
she is though, she is…..
Never mind fox – she’s a Tottenham fan, which overrides all other considerations, or rather, excuses the music!
Course, I could have mentioned my penchant for Paul McCartney’s Frogs’ Chorus but Rich and Gordon have heard this already and anyway it doesn’t exactly go against my grain.
Love is perhaps slightly too strong a word but I’m willing to admit to a certain euphoria – bordering on a willingness to approach a dance area – when The Pointer Sisters‘ I’m So Excited is heard. The lyrics are filthy and the band is pretty hot.
Oh, I wish I’d thought of them – I like Slowhand. And their version of Fire.
Ha ha, years of nominating the Grateful Dead has led up to that moment ! SURPRISE !
Yep. All just a ruse. Give me 80′s disco any day…
Not generally a fan of hard rock so some might be surprised to know I like More Than a Feeling by Boston. Don’t know why I thought of that all of sudden.
Been away from this game for ten days so I’m going back and adding late comments to some of them.
Reminder to self – visit the Spill more often! (Trying to juggle too many things at once, I’m afraid!)
I would have nommed More Than A Felling myself, except I didn’t think that me liking it would surprise anyone.
Chris’ plea is that you add your backlog is a single list in the latest post, to save him hunting…
Maybe that should go into the main post every day, along with “Please list song title and artist for Chris”.
Barry Manilow singing this
There’s no point me going for anything too guilty pleasure-ish given that I’m forever nominating crud on the Mothership. I don’t think it would surprise anyone to hear I have a fondness for Madonna, Kylie, Take That, Barry Manilow… Hm, I think it might have to be this. as I don’t usually go for anything so rocky:
Therapy?: Lonely, Crying Only
Mind you, think I may have posted this here before, so bang goes that surprise…
Therapy?’s name always amused me. I can only hear it spoken like you would say, “Tea?” or “Juicy fruit?”
- Therapy?
- Thanks, but I just put one out.
Has this got to be answered in the present tense? It’s just that my first thought took me right back to my first year at uni, sharing a flat with 8 or 9 [still] strangers, who were so surprised to hear this
coming from my room, as opposed to Kate & Anna McGarrigle (on tape, people, on tape – it was a looooong time ago!) that they actually SPOKE to me – as opposed to just scoffing the contents of *my* food cupboard and then scuttling back off to wherever first-year sociology/English/drama students scuttle off to…
But I don’t think that would come as a surprise to the RR collective these days, seeing as I’ve even had Ms. Hagen B-listed (thanks to PaulMac).
I could, of course, go with The Soul of Black John, which surprised some people when it made my Festive ‘Spill a while ago ( I remember tinny commenting on it!)
Here’s a snippet for you:
It won’t do at all, now, though, because you’ve heard it from me before, and I’ve never made a secret of the fact that I DO like soul – there’s just too many soul lovers with quicker fingers and more enthusiasm for the game over on the Mothership.
So after much thought, and even more fruitless searching of the interweb for something I can post, I have decided to go with the funny jazz noises I enjoy when the mood takes me. I’ve never seen Gutbucket live, but I listen to an album of theirs called Dry Humping The American Dream – I’ll go with the title track, because it’s up on their myspace page if anyone wants to give it a listen (don’t be frightened, we’re not in Abahachi’s league here)
http://www.myspace.com/gutbucket/music
Or, if you’d rather not stray from this page, here’s a snippet of the band in action, albeit with a different song, possibly more typical of their oeuvre than the title I’ve chosen.
For Chris:
Gutbucket – Dry Humping the American Dream
This one really is a challenge, this music marathon is tougher than I thought it would be, what with my years of building up fitness, pounding the virtual pavements of online-waffling-about-music.
I’ve nominated and donded everything from metal to showtunes on RR, and while I’m not famous for being open-minded and unbound by genre, I’m not sure what would be surprising.
Nevertheless, this is an abomination in every way, an insult to rock’n'roll and the blues. I’m surprised I feel the love for this, but I doubt that anyone else will be surprised.
Shaky and Bonnie – A Rockin’ Good Way
It’s not even cheesy, it’s disgusting. I hope someone’s surprised.
ha ha – I WOULD have expected Shaky from Panthersan – but not you… and another bonnie mention.
I can feel the static from the suits – and I have just witnessed all 2 minutes 50 of that – cheers daddypig – i think (but – get it out of my head NOW!)
Thank you SO much for being surprised !
I’m so surprised I dropped a stitch in my home-crafted museli!
I’m so surprised I left a strand of hair uncrimped! That was a truly memorable video, I must admit that the first 7″ single I ever bought was by Shaky, but in my defense it was in a bargain bin.
Thanks both. It doesn’t get more surprising than that !
this is really difficult, I have a pretty wide ranging taste in good stuff and trash.. really it would be Wham! but most people here are pretty used that – and that knowledge was given away with my nomination for knowing all the words to Wham Rap, to those that didn’t.
Pop stuff: my Kylie choice could have been:
or Kylie – Shocked
or maybe – some true trash – when I went through a messy split around 2000 – Cohen wouldn’t cut it and alternative cool didn’t help – hard core dance wasn’t doing it’s job, so even though I managed to cling on to the record collection, sadly for my brain this is the tune that stuck:
Madasun – don’t you worry
So ummmm, what isn’t known quite as well about my taste? – during the ’80s I had a pretty big thing about the works of Prince, Didn’t really sit at the same table as my alternative records – but easily sits with the same aficionados in the drawing room having a cigar… what could be a surprise is the amount of Prince Proteges that ended up in my collection at the time of following Throwing Muses/Pixies/ Wolfgang Press around dingy smelly little clubs… Here’s:
JILL JONES “ALL DAY ALL NIGHT”
as my choice… enjoy!
and a bonus:
A Love Bizarre – Sheila E.
dond for A Love Bizarre. I love that song. The Glamourous Life Too. I guess Sheila E. is my favorite of the Prince protegees. (And not really a protogee, but the Bangles’ Manic Monday too. On the other hand, Sheena Easton and Vanity 6′s Sex Shooter are best left mostly forgotton).
We’re straying into Abahachi territory here. His love for The Bangles was surprising when we all first discovered it but he nowadays he wears it like a badge of honour. And quite right too …
It’s Aba’s devotion to Whitesnake and Captain and Tenielle that still has me scratching my head though.
Vanity 6′s and Apollonia 6, are not memorable for the quality of the music, that’s for sure.
CHRIS
Heeeeeeeeelp.
I did everything right in my posting for Erik Satie except I put in the wrong piece of music.
Did it without thinking, or listening, just assumed it was right. I should have picked this one. ( It is on the same CD ).
Erik Satie…………..Gnossiennes No1 Lent
Wouldn’t call it unexpected but I do love :
Bei Meir Bist Du Schon – Andrews Sisters
I love this too! I was just saving it for ‘songs in a language you don’t understand’ day.
I struggle to like hip hop, and have never bought a hip hop record. But since I am generally open to any genre, I have tried to get into it. Steenbeck has been a big encouragement, and I have enjoyed some tracks recently. None more so that the very accessible ‘Daydream’ from Lupe Fiasco. Obviously helps that it samples a 60′s classic, and feat. Jill Scott. Great vid too.
I like the 1812 Overture.
Given that I’m definitely not a fan of prog rock/ 70s hippies in general I guess this song would count as surprising for me.
Year of the Cat – Al Stewart